Posts by Cold Steel

37

What would you tell someone who wants to become a JW?

by slimboyfat in

what would be the most important things you think someone should be aware about jws if they are planning on getting baptised as a jw?

imagine you are on a plane and get talking to the person next to you.

you find out they are considering becoming a jw but they are not sure.

Cold Steel

Are people usually told about shunning before baptism, or is this one of the little gold nuggets you find out about later?

Do most new members who are shunned end up leaving?

21

What Would JWs Do if all the GB died at once?

by bafh in

in another thread on the board, someone talked about their friend being a sniper in the marines and being very angry at the gb with thoughts of revenge.

it made me wonder - what would happen to the jws if in some strange turn of events, all the gb died at the same time?

how would they carry on if their leadership was snuffed out?

Well, if the sniper were still at large, they might see it as the right time to allow anointed women to be members of the GB. Or, they might have anonymous members. I suggest a mark in the forehead or hand might be the ticket. Hmmmmm.

8

Matthew 6:26

by ozbrad in

.

someone posted this on facebook and i found the image and words haunting..

Cold Steel

The Lord, in the creation process, does take care of both animals and people by providing food and water. But He also will not and, in fact, can not, rob man of his free agency. As we are, we are fallen and subject to evil. Most of the people starving in Africa and other third world nations, are doing so not because of weather conditions, but corrupt governments who let it happen. In countless cases, people cause the evil that come upon others. The United States and numerous charaties give food, clean water, clothing and education to those who need them. But in many countries, such aid ends up on the black market or in warehouses rotting.

In Zimbabwe, black robbers sponsored by the government invaded white owned farms, many times raping and murdering the farmers and their families. Then, instead of running the farms themselves, they sat on the property and preyed on their own people. Know what happened? Large, lush areas of land in that country went from being green in satellite photos to being brown. Dust storms kicked up and caused other climate problems and the government, not able to feed its people, called on the U.S. and other countries and we were stupid enough to provide it. Then the Zimbabwe government removed the labels from the goods and slapped on their own labels; then they let most of the foodstuffs rot and they sold what they could. And oh yes, the political leaders of that foul state ate like kings.

In North Korea and Cuba, U.S. sanctions actually cause hunger and poverty. Truman kept MacArthur from winning the Korean War and brokered a very ill-advised peace through Gen. Ridgeway. This directly led to the idiocy in which we conducted the Vietnam War and is the reason the North Koreans never acknowledged that the war was over. To them, it's still on. Then Castro screwed us in Cuba and the people who should have known better got pissed off and voted sanctions against it. Never mind that political conservatives nationwide fully knew Castro was a communist; it escaped the combined wisdom of the entire Eisenhower administration. We could turn them away from communism by turning them into capitalists, but politicians and neocons would rather get revenge through sanctions.

Anyway, when it seems so simple that God is to blame, look again. The Devil is in the details, literally. And God will not, and can not, destroy man's free agency. Remember, too, that God sees things from a different perspective. A human soul is eternal, having no end. Regardless of how man suffers, whether from cancer or starvation, he leaves behind a corrupt body and, because of Christ, inherits a perfect, incorruptible body. It doesn't make it easier in the here and now, but one day man will see everything in its proper context.

12

Does The WTBTS Use Spies To Find The Rebellious?

by Cold Steel in

some people are outspoken critics of the society even while being part of it.

they may do this because of their families or because they have doubts about their doubts.

have you heard any examples of elders sending people forth to ferret out doubters and people who may spread discontent?

Cold Steel

Some people are outspoken critics of the Society even while being part of it. They may do this because of their families or because they have doubts about their doubts. Have you heard any examples of elders sending people forth to ferret out doubters and people who may spread discontent? If not, are there people who take it on their own to find and report such people?

Have any of you been stabbed in the proverbial backs by those you thought were friends and who testified against you?

Also, how does the church treat such critics within their ranks? If a person promises to repent and turn over a new leaf in a church hearing, are they usually given another chance or is the die cast? Have they crossed the Rubicon?

11

let's review what we've learned from the Jeremiah book so far

by nowwhat? in

ok group, we have learned:.

a. working more to provide for ones family is tantamount to worshipping false gods!.

b. do'nt have children because one day you might have to eat them!.

Cold Steel

If I were a theology professor, or even a religious literary professor, I'd flunk you.

...the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Then said I, Ah, Lord God ! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord . Then the Lord put forth his hand and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth. See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. (Jeremiah 1)

You think the people the Lord is threatening are folks just like your neighbors...good, decent and, for the most part, honorable. But unless you see them as the Lord sees them and understands them as He does, your judgment is faulty. These weren't just people who were members of a different church, or different religion, they were people who covenanted with the Lord, then rejected Him to adopt profligate heathan lifestyle, often one associated with the sacrifice of children. (The women who agreed to divide and eat their babies during a time of famine are representative of these types of people. Had they repented when Jeremiah and the other prophets warned them, the Lord would have spared the city.) Instead, they sought these prophets lives. The Lord told the people to ally themselves with Babylon and not Egypt, and this political message was so unpopular that the prophets became enemies of the state. The Lord also called them to repentance, and they rejected that advice as well. Babylon had placed Zedekiah on the throne and he betrayed them. So they were fully ripe for destruction.

The problem with leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses is that you treat the JW God as being the same God of the Old and New Testaments, and this is a fallacy, in my view. Leave them, but don't assume God is representative of the being the JWs preach. He is not.

31

Proof of a Spirit World? The Scole experiments

by universaltruth in

i just had to share something i found fascinating and faith building.

i know it's not specifically related to the topic of this forum but i think it would be useful to anyone lacking faith in a spirit world and a god such as those who have been stumbled by false religion.. i do not personally believe that the existence of complex life provides evidence of a creator as evolutionists have done a very good job at explaining how life has evolved into the complex forms that exist today.. so instead ive looked to the supernatural to provide me with evidence of a spirit world.

if i can prove to myself that a spirit world exists, this would provide sufficient evidence for the existence of a god, since it is reasonable to assume that one cannot exist without the other.. without dabbling in the occult myself i have carried out research into the paranormal and i am always keen to watch documentarys that provide convincing evidence and credible eye witness testimony.. one such documentary which was aired on tv can now be watched on youtube.

Cold Steel

I don't believe there will ever be demonstable proofs of anything religious from a scientific standpoint. There may be evidence, but believers will always find reasons for believing and non-believers will always find ways of rejecting evidence.

Having just watched about half the video posted above by Witness My Fury, I cannot judge such things unless I know some of the principals or are able to question them at length. Manipulation comes in many ways and if I'm watching something that's trying to convince me that something is true, I don't want a bunch of music that sounds like it came from Elvira, Mistress of Darkness. Someone could produce such a video and then, at the end, say, "Hey, April's Fools!"

Years ago, the Amazing Kreskin was challenged by the mayor of San Francisco to deliver a message. He wrote an address, picked at random, on a piece of paper. Then he took the paper and a few sheets under it on the pad, folded it up in a sheet of aluminum foil, then put it in an envelope and sealed it with a wax seal. Kreskin took up the challenge, but the mayor didn't want to give off any signals, so he gave the envelope to his executive assistant and, together with a police official, sent them off to deliver it.

Kreskin then set out and, not very familiar with the city, simpy gave "turn here" or "turn there" directions. As they got close to the waterfront, Kreskin exited the car and walked up and down a street. Finally, facing one house, he paused, then raced up the steps and knocked on the door. In a few seconds, a bemused man answered and looked at the group. "Yeah," he said.

"I think this is for you," Kreskin said and handed him the envelope. The guy broke the seal, saw the address and said, "So? This is my address." And then they told him the story.

Now I know Kreskin doesn't have ESP. He's admitted such, though he's been able to do some "amazing" things. Was the major in on it? Did Kreskin have a confederate in that particular house? One who he could visit regardless of the address in the note and then exchange? Or did someone in the car who wasn't supposed to know, but did, tip him off? I don't know how he does these things, but he has even convinced skeptics that he has some incredible abilities. I've also been impressed by Derren Brown, a British mentalist. Brown can convince people to take blank paper as money, pay winnings on worthless bets and yet he claims 1) he doesn't use stooges, and 2) he's not a psychic. But he, too, could convinced hard nose skeptics that he did have such powers if he chose. In one of his shows, the camera shows a public phone ringing. A man walks by, picks up the phone and says, "Hello?" He listens for a few seconds, then collapses. After a few minutes he revives, stands up, hangs up the phone and walks away. Seconds after the guy has left the frame, the phone rings again and the show ends. (You can get his six shows from Amazon.com in .mp3 format, and they're astounding. My favorite is where he makes the sun disappear in the middle of a desert in Episode 6.) You can also get some of Kreskin's early shows.

50

Do You Fear Death?

by Cold Steel in

whether you're a former jw, or active jw, or some other religion, or atheist, what do you say?

do you fear death and, whether yes, no, or i don't know, why?

have changed religious views changed your view of death?

Cold Steel

My views don't just represent "Mormonism" by a long shot, but many other Christian belief systems. Adventists tend to believe in soul sleeping, but Catholics, most Protestants and especially the Eastern Orthodox all believe that when one dies, the spirit survives. First Century Christians certainly believed it despite what Adventists believe. There were many books and libraries that were discovered in the late 1800s, then the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi library in 1947, and more later.

As for the atheistic view, Albert Camus repeatedly discussed suicide as a viable way out of a world of woe. Though he didn't commit suicide, he did change his views later in life and was contemplating the Catholic priesthood when he was killed in an automobile accident. I had a neighbor who was an atheist and when he developed inoperable cancer, he sent his wife out shopping, wrote a note telling her to contact my father and not go in the garage. He posted it on the door leading from the kitchen to the garage, went into the garage and blew his head off. Both he and his wife were members of the Hemlock Society and later his wife admitted that she expected him to do this.

But some people want to hang on whatever the cost. Others just don't want the hassle of living life. People can believe what they want about an afterlife, but my maternal grandfather saw friends and relatives who had passed before he passed on and my father, as I've said, told us he had seen and spoken to his mother. She had died in complete dementia and I recall how frustrating it was on my dad, who found it difficult to deal with her. But this wasn't the person who spoke to him. I've also read scores of other accounts that convince me there's a real afterlife. And some of these shows dealing with ghosts, I think, are on the level. Several teams have gone to St. Augustine's lighthouse in Florida, and they saw, heard and experienced very similar paranormal activity. Two teams actually saw movement as well as hearing voices and footsteps.

People who get burned by religion can become bitter and throw everything out with the bathwater. That's unfortunate. If one can just reject Adventism and not reject all religion, I think they'd be less bitter and find more purpose in life.

St. Augustine's Lighthouse in northeast Florida.

37

What would you tell someone who wants to become a JW?

by slimboyfat in

what would be the most important things you think someone should be aware about jws if they are planning on getting baptised as a jw?

imagine you are on a plane and get talking to the person next to you.

you find out they are considering becoming a jw but they are not sure.

Cold Steel

I think ol' Slimboyfat pretty much nailed all the good stuff. Me, I'd ask that if he believes the Jehovah's Witnesses are God's representative "kingdom on Earth," how that fact was communicated to the organization's Governing Body or the church at large. No one saw an angel, no one saw God, no one was kicked in the head by a horse and had visions of Jesus swinging open the pearly gates of Heaven. I'd point out how their missionaries complain about "manmade" churches, but that "The Truth" had all the earmarks of a manmade church.

Wonder how long it takes reality to take hold with new members? One day it's okay to question the leadership, the next you're being hauled into a back room for a readjustment of attitude. Man, I'd like to be a fly on the wall!

After Armageddon, does the membership expect Jehovah to meet directly with the Governing Body?

50

Do You Fear Death?

by Cold Steel in

whether you're a former jw, or active jw, or some other religion, or atheist, what do you say?

do you fear death and, whether yes, no, or i don't know, why?

have changed religious views changed your view of death?

Cold Steel

Not once did any of these men say "I am now ready to die;" most laughed when I asked them, "Do you remember when you said you wanted to die by the time you hit 50 years old and you said to me, "Kill Me, If I Ever Hit 60!" Every one of these men is rich, has kids and grandchildren and very happy, the group wish they could become 30 again and live another 50-100 years or until they get bored. Since most of them are very educated and have scientic minds, I will never believe they could get bored even if they lived to be 500 years old. They are always studying, learning, researching, two great botanist, one of the group is going back to school to teach. From your response to Lois, you must be no older then 35.

I’ve never seen the X-Files episode you mentioned...leastways I can’t recall.

No, I’m not 35-ish. In fact, in five days I’m going to be 60 YEARS OLD ! (I just don’t act it.)

I believe in life after death and I greatly look forward to the transition. I had a bicycle accident back in 2001 and have suffered chronic pain in my ribs ever since. Even narcotics don’t stop all the pain. Fortunately, I just had surgery, so I may be getting some significant pain relief; however, I see your point. I was at a doctor’s office some years ago (I worked at NIH), and I recall that an elderly woman was waiting to be seen. She had a physical therapist with her and she was just sobbing, tears going down both cheeks. I heard the young therapist whispering to her, but couldn’t hear what he was saying. But I could hear her. She kept choking back the tears and saying, “I don’t want to die...I don’t want to die!” I remember thinking, “Lady, if you knew what the other side was like, you’d be ready to go now.”

We’re all born with the will to survive, and to fear death. I believe God placed that in us as a necessary survival mechanism. I’ve read dozens of near death experiences, by people of all backgrounds, ages and religious beliefs (even atheists), and I see in many of them a comforting consistency. But here’s the rub. I personally believe that mankind has virtually unlimited opportunities to progress in the eternities. If you had the ability to channel great power and glory, to have no restrictions on learning, of comprehending many different things at the same time, of being able to travel anyplace in the Universe under your own power, of participating in the creation process and being able to see your loved ones any time you wish.

Paul puts it well when he declared that “ we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.” This stumps most Christians because they believe that the Bible reveals everything that was taught by Jesus and the prophets. But Paul calls it “hidden” wisdom—wisdom that was ordained by God “before the world, unto our glory.” To me, this indicates that God knew that man would fall, and that man’s ability for spiritual growth is virtually limitless. But Adam and Eve didn’t have that ability. They had to fall and comprehend good from evil—to fall and then be redeemed. While the naked couple were innocents, they didn’t have spiritual or intellectual potential. Their bodies, while immortal, were incapable of housing great power and glory. As Paul said:

Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit.... Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. ... But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:9-14)

Since the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses claim this discernment, they should be able to fill in the blanks of what await us; however, they seem as confounded as anyone about the afterlife. Everything they teach are interpretations of biblical scripture. What Paul is talking about, though, are mysteries not recorded in the Bible, but given to the apostles by revelation. These mysteries are hidden and must be revealed by the Spirit of God.

But Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that most of them will be part of an “earthly class” of being, being resurrected physically and essentially restored to the type of immortal bodies that Adam and Eve had. Based on the pictures in The Watchtower and Awake!, it seems that those on the earth will be trapped in everlasting routines of doing the same types of things they do now, or would like to do. I see them playing musical instruments, painting landscapes, having family reunions, hiking, biking, gathering in groups or playing with lions, all leisurely pastimes. Is this all there is? I don’t see them building great cities, starships, traveling through great portals to distant places. And this is just during the Millennium. After the Millennium, then what? How does life change?

Then there’s the heavenly class. As spirits, they do what? Rule with Jehovah and mingle with angels? Who do they rule? A perfect society needs no laws, no rulers, no courts and no police. People will have no need to steal, to be dishonest or to enter into dispute.

The things I hear from Jehovah's Witnesses, however, makes me wonder if there’s really anything to look forward to from their point of view, and this is the basis of my question.

Even if one views death as a sleep, and resurrection as a recreation, one must, I hope, expect more than just an Adamic body with no glory and no power and no ability to become like God.

50

Do You Fear Death?

by Cold Steel in

whether you're a former jw, or active jw, or some other religion, or atheist, what do you say?

do you fear death and, whether yes, no, or i don't know, why?

have changed religious views changed your view of death?

Cold Steel

I had a huge list of things I wanted to do in "paradise." What a con that was.

Like what? Does this mean at one time you were looking forward to being in Paradise? Didn't you worry that any terrestrial existence might bring with it eventual boredom? I went to Oahu, Hawaii, for one semester in the 70s. Looked forward to it, too. But after three months, though I definitely loved the island life, I could see where being there two years would have driven me CRAZY! I began missing things I never thought I would miss. So let's ramp us Paradise to perfect weather, no bugs, no sunburns, no sharks, no dust, no death, no aging. Let's also ramp up the timeframe from 75 years of maximum age to trillions and trillions of years (that being only a fraction of eternity).

After 500 years how enthusiastic will you be? How about a thousand? Five thousand? Or how about a mere trillion years? (Yes, I say "mere" because a trillion years, or 25 trillion years, is just a small bump in the road when it comes to eternity.)

Jehovah's Witnesses so casually refer to eternity in Paradise that it makes me wonder if they really can conceptualize what eternity really is.